Monday, November 14, 2005

Redneck Huntin' Dogs


You know they say that after you've been married for several years you begin to look like each other. Here in Idaho, after you've been hunting with your dogs for several years...well, you get the idea (poor dogs).

Friday, November 11, 2005

Revival


We're in the middle of revival this week with Rob Hartman. Man, if you've never heard him preach, you have missed it! When I was a kid, he was one of the few evangelists around who could hold my attention. He still does!

On Wednesday evening, Rob preached to us about how astonishing prayer produces astonishing results. His message was built around the story of how Peter was released from prison by an angel. The point was that we pray for God's will to be done and when it happens it many times blows away our idea of how it will and should happen.

Last night he took us through the story of Paul and Silas in the jail. He asked, "What took place in that cell before midnight?" You know, there is time unaccounted for in the story. His unauthorized version is fascinating.

Rob Hartman was the evangelist at Holiness Heritage Youth Camp in 1991 when I gave my heart to Christ. He still impacts the lives of young people. My teens have thoroughly enjoyed his ministry.

Thursday, November 10, 2005

Welcome to our world, Addison!

I know this is pathetically late, but I want to wish hearty congratulations to Marc and Talisha on the delivery of Addison Marc Taylor. I'm telling you, he's a great-looking boy. He is now over a week old and doing well. Addison arrived while we were in Indiana so I wasn't able to meet him until last Friday. He's the man!

I don't have pics yet, but additional congratulations go out to Joe and Peggy on the birth of little Shiloh. She's a cutie. Also, congrats to Markus and Johanna on the birth of Kelesa (I probably just mutilated the spelling of the name).

All of the babies have been born in the last 2 weeks. I told the church last Sunday that we are initiating an agressive church growth plan. We still have 2 or 3 on the way! There's more than one way to grow a church.

The Great Pumpkin Strikes Again


Fall is my favorite time of the year. The falling leaves, college football games, and crisp air all indicate that the year is drawing to a close. I love it! I get out my corduroy pants, the sweaters, the jackets, the rake, and live it up!

Lori and I have encountered a puzzling conundrum (I know; I said it twice) in raising our children. We come from different backgrounds when it comes to the celebration of Halloween. She was taught that it was the devil's holiday and that you shouldn't do anything to glorify the devil, while I was brought up to innocently believe that it was a great way to get a bunch of free candy.

Now, while I think that people go overboard on the whole evil component of Halloween and try to interpret the trick-or-treating thing as devilish and sinful, I also realize that more and more culture has used the holiday as a time to glorify hellishness and malice. So, as a result, what do we do for our kids? Various wholesome alternatives to Halloween have sprung up, giving families a chance to celebrate the gifts and joys God has provided in fall and that's all well and good. But, I gotta admit, there's a lot of fun involved in dressing up like a Mexican vaquero (which I did one year) with panty hose stuck over my face which contributed to my not being able to see very well and running pell-mell into a guide line for a telephone pole, causing a bruise which did not leave until I was well into my 20s. I want my kids to enjoy that part of it (not the bruise; the dress-up thing).

Well, when Lori and I ever encounter an issue that we might possibly disagree abput, we talk it through, discuss the implications, our convictions, and of course view the issue through the lens of the Bible. However, if after it is all said and done, one of us still holds a strong conviction, we don't push it. This is what we've done with Halloween. We have decided not to allow Trey to go trick-or-treating, but we do allow him to have a party for dress-up (this year was his birthday party, which I will be putting up shortly). So, it has turned out good for all involved.

I don't know why I went into all of that but anyway, this year, we were in the Queen City for Halloween, and Lori decided to take Trey, Kassady, Alicia, and Christy to a local farm to pick out some pumpkins for carving. We had early on agreed that this was something that our kids could do. Before we moved to Idaho, pumpkin-carving was an October ritual for the Frederick kids and us.

We had a blast this year! The whole family got involved. First the kids picked out the pumpkins (as you can see Trey got a little bored with this part), and then we spent the evening carving. It was great fun as you can see from the pics below.

Trey and Alicia fly down the inflated slide. This was the only thing Trey remembered when telling me about his trip to the pumpkin farm. I have to admit that does look like a lot of fun. At what point do we stop having fun like this because it's "immature"? It's too bad, really.
Trey was in pumpkin heaven. He thought they were large, orange cylindrical potatoes. The boy has been in Idaho way too long!



I don't take a lot of time in front of the mirror in the morning (for obvious reasons) so it was rather disconcerting to view the above picture. I used to have small little hairs that grew on top of my head like some type of wispy moss, but those days are long gone. My glabrous scalp now remotely resembles the top of those little glass Christmas snow things. You know, the kind that you shake and the snow falls over the little Santa and reindeer figurines. Very smooth and shiny. Kids, enjoy your hair while you have it.

Trey and I had a lot of fun carving his pumpkin. I worked on the design while Trey focused on the grunt work of scooping out the pumpkin "goop" and seeds. Together, we came up with an award-winning creation that sensitively conveyed the message that cried "please help me; my creators have no idea how to carve a pumpkin, but I have to smile anyway".


Christy and Lori slaved away, trying their best to outdo the rest of us. Kassady kept trying to help by grabbing pumpkin seeds and scattering them all over the kitchen floor.

Lori, in this picture, features the new hair-do that is taking Bible college campuses by storm. It's up, but it's down. Can't beat that one! "But, (fill in the name of your local dean of women), my hair is up..."
Alicia went after her pumpkin vigorously, stabbing and slicing. She ended up with a more traditional looking jack o' lantern (think God for a normal person among us). She did an awesome job as she artfully carved away!
Anthony (Ankie) had more fun than anyone creating his masterpiece. His original idea included a carving of a human skull with a gaping hole in it's head. Anthony, though, wasn't quite patient enough to pull that one off so he settled for the glaring pumpkin of malice (see large pumpkin next to Trey's below). Ank is great!
The Frederick cousins and Trey hard at work.

Trey was quite proud of our work of art. I should have used that grin as a model for our jack o' lantern. Can't you just see a flame flickering behind those gams? He was proud. However, his favorite part was attempting to light the candle inside. I already have a budding pyromaniac on my hands. What is it about the male fascination with fire?

Here is the finished product, glowing gleefully in the darkness of the front steps. I actually think Trey's pumpkin (observe target of the subtle white arrow) had a sense of humor. He grinned jovially despite his apparent lack in stature as compared to the hulking, glowering pumpkin beside him.

Monsters in the cabinet


Kassady continued her cabinet exploration in Cincinnati. She was much frightened by the quadruple slot toaster she encountered in the kitchen of Charlotte Frederick. Her explanation for her tearful panic attack was that the toaster growled at her. I don't know...

Wednesday, November 09, 2005

Quote of the day

Last night I was reading and came across this quote from C.S. Lewis (found in his book "Miracles"):

It is always shocking to meet life where we thought we were alone. "Look out!" we cry, "it's alive." And therefore this is the very point at which so many draw back--I would have done so myself if I could--and proceed no further with Christianity. An "impersonal God"--well and good. A subjective God of beauty, truth, and goodness, inside our own heads--better still. A formless life-force surging through us, a vast power which we can tap--best of all. But God Himself, alive, pulling at the other end of the cord, perhaps approaching at an infinite speed, the hunter, king, husband--that is quite another matter. There comes a moment when the children who have been playing in the burglars hush suddenly: was that a real footstep in the hall? There comes a moment when people who have been dabbling in religion ("Man's search for God!") suddenly draw back. Supposing we really found Him? We never meant it to come to that! Worse still, supposing He had found us?

Tuesday, November 08, 2005

Colts 40, Patriots 21




I'm thinking this might be our year. What a great game! Tom Brady, what does it feel like to play on a mediocre team? Just wondering.

Youth Challenge recap, Part II

Alright, I'm back. Saturday featured my favorite session of them all, the morning Praise and Worship session. This is an opportunity for young people to just be real, to share what's going on in their lives. We always mix the testimonies with music and it seems like this is a time where teens are able to be vulnerable, to be open about what God is doing and the lessons they are learning. It was great!

Robbie and Rachel England talked about a subject that is unfortunately taboo in a lot of churces: Sex. You know, I've never been able to figure out why we don't openly address the problem. I have worked with teens all over the country for the last 10 years and I'm telling you that pre-marital sex is a massive problem in the church. And yes, you have teens in your church struggling with this problem if you have a youth group. The scary thing is that the problem is beginning to reach teens who are 13, 14, 15 years of age. It kills me that there's this massive problem out there, but because of church political correctness we talk about it using vague generalities. Wake up, people! This isn't going away. I faced the temptation when I was in a church youth group, and I can guarantee you your kids are going to be there some day. We have to challenge our teens to live pure lives, living by biblical principles, instead of talking about fornication and using weird illustrations like Jacob and his daughter-in-law Tamar (yes, this has happened) and throwing out the conservative F-word (fornication). Let's be appropriate, sensitive to our audience, but most of all real about this sin.

Robbie and Rachel did an outstanding job on handling the subject. They weren't off-color, nor said anything that would have been inappropriate for a mixed audience. But they did get across the point, that purity is a gift and it's something that is to be treasured. If you buy any session of Youth Challenge (buy the DVDs at www.youthchallenge.net), I recommend this one. Great job!

Mike Avery, president of God's Bible School and College, spoke on the topic of living a life of conviction and principle. He was asked to speak primarily upon the "standards" of the CHM. He handled it extremely well. He also followed his session up with a Q&A segment. All I have to say is that I empathize with anyone answering the questions he was asked. Many of the questions were leading (at best) and dealt with areas of personal conviction, areas that aren't necessarily biblical in nature. He did a great job!

After lunch, this time at Penn Station subs, the best subs in the US, we closed with an afternoon session featuring Jeff Keaton. He tore it up, as usual, and challenged the crowd to live lives of faith, putting everything in the hands of God. Great stuff. We closed out YC with a balloon launch. Hopefully, I will have pics by the end of the week. It was a great convention!

Special thanks go out to "Smiley" Plank, Jonathan Bender, Vincent Dubbeld, Vision (and Sam), Celebration (I liked Troy's intro for them, "the only group here who has a promotional picture older than you"), Singing Friends (Trivia Question: Name their only drummer), DC Praise (Go Matt!), the Collingsworth Family (please buy their CD; it's in my top ten CDs right now; I'll do a review later), Soundkings extraordinaire Dale, Wes, and Allen, Wesley Whitaker (have him at your church for a concert; the boy can tear up the trumpet), Troy and A&W, the YC Boyz (Dan, Dan, John, Jonathan, and Troy), Eric Guntrum, Steve Shipman, Dwight Rine, Sufjan Stevens (OK, just kidding), Wesleyan Publishing House, visiting guests of super-group N'1 Accord, GBS, HSBC, PVBI, UBC, and the lady at Skyline Chili who was so sweet. Peace and love.

Out.

Monday, November 07, 2005

Youth Challenge recap, Part I

It's been my privilege to be a part of Youth Challenge now for about 5 or 6 years, going on 4 years as a board member. For those of you who aren't familiar with Youth Challenge, we are a convention aimed at young adults aged 16-25. Held annually (always the last full weekend in October) in West Harrison, IN, Youth Challenge is a Thursday through Saturday event specifically for the young adults of the conservative holiness movement (check out www.holiness.cc if you don't understand the term "conservative holiness movement").

This was our 11th convention as well as our 10 year celebration. I know, I know, it sounds really confusing, but it's our 10th full year.

Anyway, we kicked things off with a Thursday evening concert featuring DC Praise, The Singing Friends, Vision, Wesley Whitaker, Celebration, and the Collingsworth Family. Hosted by Troy Keaton and Anthony Webb, the program was full of great music and fun-filled entertainment (most of the time). I personally enjoyed the Troy Keaton and Anthony Webb impersonation of Brent Vernon and Sam. Most of the time, their jokes hit the mark, but every once in a while...
Hey, I know what it's like to try to be funny while standing up in front of a dead, unimpressed crowd (e.g. AYC 2003, ARK extravaganza/Keith's most humiliating moments/whole 'nother story). Overall, the concert went well.

Friday morning featured the YC 3-on-3 basketball tournament. This year the team that one featured players all well over 6'2". The tallest guy was like 6'7" or 6'8". Congrats Jordan, Drew, Jamie, and Kyle!

I had to speak in the Friday afternoon session. Just a word of advice here: if you are asked to be the special speaker at an event in the Cincinnati area do not, I repeat, DO NOT, go to Skyline shortly before. I thought, man, surely a small 3-way dry and 2 chili dogs won't hurt! That's how giving into temptation starts. After Jon Plank, Jonathan Bender, and I downed our lunch I got back to YC with about an hour to spare before the 2:00 PM service. About 10-15 minutes before 2:00 I got extremely sick. I was feeling a little shaky by the time I finally got backstage. Scary!

God truly helped me to speak. I have rarely preached with that much freedom. My sermon topic was taking a life-check. It was exciting to see several teens come forward to give their lives to Christ!

In the evening service, Dan Stetler was the featured speaker. He, too, went to Skyline shortly before the service. I didn't notice the ill-effects that I was plagued with (thankfully; didn't want to notice). The service also featured music from the YC Orchestra (conducted by Lori). I have never heard 30 violins, 2 trumpets, and a drum sound so good! Fantastic! The Youth Challenge Choir also sang in the service. There are very few things more enjoyable to me than conducting a choir. They did an outstanding job while singing the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir song "Total Praise". We rehearsed for 30 minutes and pulled it off. Beautiful! The evening service closed with hundreds of teens coming forward and answering in the affirmative the question "Will you keep the holiness heritage alive?".

The afterglow that night was a massive birthday bash for Youth Challenge featuring noisemakers, balloons, audience games, and much more. The host for the event was Sam (and Brent, the ventriloquist). Lots of fun!

OK, I have to run, but I'll be back with YC Update Part II.

Friday, November 04, 2005

Home, Sweet Idaho Home

After a 10 day vacation, the Waggoner family finally made it back to Idaho, arriving late last night. We walked in the door about 11:30 PM. Man, it felt good to be home. There is nothing like sleeping in your own bed, fluffing your own pillows, and bumping your head on your own headboard. Trey and Kassady slept almost the entire flight (both legs; the flights, not their physical legs) and were wound up higher than a kite by the time we arrived home. So, as a result, I didn't get to sleep until about 1:30 this morning. I'm not a guy who can sleep in a lot, so I was wide awake by 7:30. Oh well, I can always get caught up later.

We had a great time and I will be sure to fill you in on all the details. However, I have a little bit of catch-up to take care of around the office, so I might not get to it until later. Stay tuned...

Wednesday, October 19, 2005

Late Breaking News from Big Idea...


Phil Vischer and Mike Nawrocki are excited about the addition of Trey Waggoner to the animation team. Trey brings a wealth of knowledge to Big Idea, having memorized every question and multiple choice answer on the VeggieTales trivia found on feature DVDs. Trey has formerly drawn for Mom and Dad Enterprises as well as Emme Inc. He will be bringing the character Charlie the Cauliflower (shown above) to the Big Idea roster.

Kassady's Capers




Kassady is really into things these days. I came home from work the other day and she was calmly viewing her kingdom from inside the cabinets, merrily ensconced upon the upper shelf. I was ticked and tickled at the same time.

Tuesday, October 18, 2005

Jillian Grace




I finally got pictures of my niece Jillian Grace Waggoner. She's beautiful! I'm looking forward to being with Bob and Becca during our mini-vacation. I guess Dylan has been having a little trouble adjusting to the fact of having a sister. He's not used to sharing attention. The other night, as Bob and Becca tucked him into bed, he pitifully said, "I'm just a sad, little frog."

Bobby said he has no clue where that came from. I thought it was hysterical. Enjoy the pics.

YC05


Youth Challenge is almost here! Man, it's hard to believe it, but it's right around the corner. Lori and I will be flying to Indianapolis next Tuesday and will be back east for a little over a week. I'm looking forward to seeing my friends and family.

I am speaking at Youth Challenge (www.youthchallenge.net) at the 2:30 PM Jumpstart on Friday, October 28. I'll also be leading the worship for the weekend. It's going to be a fantastic convention as we celebrate 10 Years. I hope to see a lot of you during the week. Touch base with me and let me know if you will be around.

Peace out!

Apologies

Guys, I know that I have been lax about posting on the blog. It hasn't been for lack of content, that's for sure. Once I get past Youth Challenge, hopefully I can keep up. Stay tuned!

Thursday, October 13, 2005

Ernie Haase and Signature Sound


Last night I took the youth group over to hear Signature Sound Quartet (http://erniehaase.musiccitynetworks.com/). They did an outstanding job! It had been almost two years since I had last heard them live. They blew me away. SSQ has mastered that fine line between entertainment and ministry. There is no doubt that you are going to laugh as well as be impressed with their vocal talent. However, the group never goes too far in their presentation, and they remain focused on presenting Christ to their crowd.

I had heard a lot of negative remarks, to be honest, about their spiky hair and short, fat ties. And, yes, that is part of their schtik. But it actually adds to their program and they use it to laugh at themselves.

The Southern Gospel fans that to this day pant and exclaim the praises of the exciting Statesmen Quartet need to see Ernie and the boys. The overall theme of the Statesman Quartet was to provide a quality, exciting, progressive performance. Well, that is exactly what Signature Sound is doing today. They are my generation's version of the Statesmen.

It was a great night. When teens can enjoy an evening of music that, to be honest, doesn't make it to their playlist, you know there is something special about the group. The quartet made the groups night when they cheerfully agreed to pose with them for pictures.

Thanks, guys, for a great evening!

Ernie graciously took some time to pose with the youth group. He is continuing the Cathedral legacy of producing great Southern Gospel music. While SSQ will never be the Cathedrals, they are creating their own place in the SG market.

The Sesame Street show that was scrapped before it made it to television: Marc and Ernie.

Doug Anderson, baritone, and Roy Webb, pianist, get in close with the group for a pic. Doug and Roy both traveled with Lighthouse, a Cincinnati quartet, for several years. Roy is one of the best comic sidekicks I've ever witnessed in Southern Gospel music. He plays the straight man, no emotion whatsoever. I was literally crying, I was laughing so hard. It was nice to touch base with some guys from the Queen City.

Now that is one tall dude. Ryan Seaton, a fellow Hoosier, sings lead for SSQ. He has a fantastic voice. Nice guy. The girls liked him.

Wednesday, October 12, 2005

Weather Update


News Anchor: And now, late breaking news from Nampa where we go live to our local anchor, Keith Waggoner, who is standing by:

Keith: it is now chilly enough to wear sweatshirts in Idaho.

News Anchor: Thanks, Keith, for that update. Now, on to more important news...

Saturday, October 08, 2005

Another Happy Birthday

I want to give a shout out to Justin Aman, whose 18th birthday was yesterday. Yesterday was also the Homecoming football game for Melba High School. Unfortunately, Justin apparently (according to the team trainer) tore his ACL on the third or fourth play of the game. What a bummer! This is his senior year and it appears that he will have to miss the rest of the season. Aaron, Duane, Marc, and I went to the game last night. Melba whipped up on Marsing 44-20 (or something like that). I feel extremely bad for Justin, though. Life isn't fair sometimes.

Well, Happy Birthday, anyway.

Friday, October 07, 2005

Happy Birthday, Ray!


"A happy birthday to you, a happy birthday to you. Every day of the year, may you feel Jesus near. A happy birthday to you, a happy birthday to you. The best one you've ever had."

Ray, if you'll drop your change in the white plastic church we'll give you an unsharpened pencil.

Thursday, October 06, 2005

Come and Dine


The other day I heard a commotion in our hall closet. Kassady had somehow pulled the doors open and in her exploration of the closet's contents discovered my stash of toilet paper.

Now, to give you a little background on this, when I was a child my parents believed in rationing toilet paper. There was often a shortage of this valuable commodity in the Waggoner household. Way too many times, I had to run the 4 or 5 blocks to my grandma's house to do my business. There was a certain terror that drove me. As a result, I have developed a phobia of running out of TP. This is an overwhelming fear. I know that I probably carry it to extremes, but I am nearly always prepared for any emergency.

I have a TP shelf in the closet. I buy the huge packs of tissue. When we get down to 12 rolls it's time to go buy some more. Well, Kassady discovered my cache. However, when Kass sees an object she usually associates that object, regardless of design or texture, with food. As I came around the corner, Kassady was sampling the delectable squares, humming with pleasure.

Kassady ran away from me and began tearing off strips of toilet paper, putting the shreds in her mouth. Her mother was horrified. I was honored.

After confronting Kassady with the accusations of toilet paper consumption, she shouted, "But I didn't inhale" and dove under the bed. I don't know, it didn't make sense to me either.

Lately, Kassady hasn't been getting enough to eat...

I told Trey and Kassady that they will later hate me for taking this picture. This is one of the embarrassing snapshots that you show their future dates. Great stuff!

"Why did I Just Say That?"

Have you ever asked yourself why you said something? It happened to me today. I'm walking out of Wal-Mart with my bags in my hand when the chirpy greeter says "Thank you for shopping at Wal-Mart". I instinctively replied, "THANK you (emphasis on THANK)". I thought to myself, why in the world did I say that? I mean, I just spent $39 of my money on items that are slightly over-priced, and I'm THANKING them? What's up with that? "Hey, I just spent the equivalent of what it would cost me for a month's subscription to DSL internet service, but I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity of spending it here at Wal-Mart instead."

I do this a lot. I'm a fairly outgoing person, but many times it's tough for me to make the initial contact with a person. So, I revert to cliches or inane statements that don't mean a thing. Stupid! I'm going to try to improve on this. It's hard, though.

Tuesday, October 04, 2005

AYC Board Meeting

I returned last week from the fall AYC board meeting. It was great to see everybody and interact with the guys. The award for the most weight lost during the summer goes to Jack Hooker and Mike Hobbs. If Mike would have stood sideways and stuck out his tongue, he could have convinced me that he was a zipper. Those guys have really shed the pounds!

There's so much back-slapping that goes on at an AYC board meeting that I can only compare the experience to a typical encounter with Amos Hann. You get the picture.

While I don't have pictures from the actual board meeting last Tuesday, I was able to obtain from hotel security photos of the Vision committee's conflab on Monday.

The security cameras caught this conspiratorial meeting of the AYC Vision Committee. The minutes of this top-secret conclave are kept in the files of the Illuminati. Yes, they are one and the same. Now you know the rest of the story. I was initially kept out of the meeting, but managed to find a way in. I ordered the pizza.

Jack sits contentedly after singlehandedly devouring most of two pizzas, breadsticks, and an order of Cinnasticks. I am marveling at what I've just witnessed. A word of advice: never get between a dieting man and a deep dish.

I was caught making yet another profound statement as Ray, the Prez, looks on. I'm not sure what Mac is doing in the background. I think he's stealing the hotel soap.

Hammin' it Up

We had a great time last night! I took several of the Grace Teens to hear Ken Ham(http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/bio.aspx?Speaker_ID=2) in Boise at a regional Answers in Genesis conference. He spoke on the topic "How to Defend the Christian Faith in Today`s World". As usual, Ken did an outstanding job! We also enjoyed a mini-concert by Buddy Davis. Overall, it was a phenomenal evening! On the way home, we stopped by McDonalds. What is it with kids and teens and McDonalds? Mickey-Ds definitely owns the market. It was a great evening as you can tell by the pictures.

Is there a more welcome sight to the hungry individual than the Golden Arches by the side of the interstate?

I'm still trying to figure out what Darnelle is doing with his tongue in this picture. Tiffany talks through her Big Mac.

Brooke reclines while Tosh dines.

Some of the girls of Grace had to get their pic taken in front of an old, beat-up, pink and white Beetle. What's up with this whole "punch-buggy, no punchbacks" thing?

Josh, the newest member of Grace Teens, tries to "peace" things together.

Josh is a blur of activity as he attempts to hold his own against Tracie. He had a unique strategy: trap the puck underneath the paddle (or whatever you call those things) and lull his opponent into a catatonic state by sweeping it back and forth. Once his opponent, Tracie in this case, has a case of the glazed-eyes, he picks up the puck, walks to the other side of the table and places it in the goal. It was effective. He won.

You just have to know Tiffany. Here are her exact words, no exaggeration: "Oh cool! Check it out. This is like a McDonald's PacMan game." She played for quite some time.

Marc thought that he was playing a virtual reality game. After the police had left the scene, I told him that it wasn't a good idea to keep referring to yourself as Mario while humming the Nintendo 64 theme song.

I just grimaced as I saw the teens playing this game...OK, that wasn't funny at all. I tried.

McD is for kids


Man, whatever happened to the days of the McDonald's kiddie land? You know, the Hamburglar slide, the Ronald McDonald statue that all the kids climbed on, not to mention the giant Grimace swings. Today it's all about video games, air hockey, and foosball. All of the McDonalds in our area have made the switch from playland to virtualland. Not that any of the teens complained. They had more fun than any of the kids would have: